Everyone connected with F2 is aware of current issues over rule changes which to be honest should have been brought in for the start of the season and not delayed until now - but they have been brought in to improve safety which is paramount. I read with incredulity suggestions of `ill thought out!' and then that some drivers may hang their helmets up until next year - suggesting some mischief somewhere so I thought I had better lay out where we stand on this.

Firstly for several years we have been keen supporters/promoters of F2 and above all wish for that to continue in the long term but personnel changes in areas of F2 late last year have led to increasing friction that hitherto have never been there and sort of removed the feel good factor for the sport - and imo that is a major mistake that drivers really do need to get a grip of.

There seems as I read it to be a political element arising over this and I read the F2 newsletter with some real dissapointment - on two counts. The first, for clarification, the 11th October event at Belle Vue that has been cancelled was always planned for Whites & Yellows as it supports the F1 British - We some weeks ago decided to replace the F2's with Spedeworth 2 Litre Saloons as an excellent support for the F1 British. Rather than cancel the date outright we moved it to tuesday 11th August to allow lower grade drivers the same opportunity to race - and we are seemingly criticised for this ?

There is a lot to be resolved if we and other promotions are to remain with F2 in 2010 or perhaps look at a more easier controllable formula such as Superstox.

F2's are important to us as we have worked hard for the last several years and you provide excellent support at our events but, sadly, they are not an audience puller and there are lot's of formulae out there to run [ Look on your own transporters as to how many come with many of you! ]

Usually by now, we have completed our plans for the following season however whilst our dates are complete and we are in planning stages for a new track, we have not yet considered F2 fixtures and are looking at other options such as, for example, the March BV event now has Rebels scheduled with F1's and 2 litre Bangers.

Car numbers have dropped this year and the economy is no doubt a partial cause combined with a big increase in F2 shale dates - doubtless welcome and therefore means after several years of maximising dates for F2's to the detriment of other formulae wishing to race, that we can now offer more dates for Ministox, V8's etc at Belle Vue in particular.

We will be reviewing car numbers - and politics over the coming weeks before making any 2010 plans.

We look forward to welcoming F2's to Belle Vue on 11th August [ Whites and Yellows only ] at the time of writing we have around 8 spaces available - and look for a good entry on August 31st and if anyone wants a chat please just come and talk,

In part agree - and part disagree - there is I suspect a good deal more involved and, hey presto, we are where we used to be with F1.

Steve, where are you coming from on this one.

I remember reading on here in not the too distant past that F2's were pulling in just as many fans as the F1's. Your words not mine.

As for Rebels, well you are barking up the wrong tree with those. I was at Coventry for the F1 semi the other week. All they do is provide a hair dryer accompniment to most peoples toilet and brew breaks. They are a pointless form of motorsport and provide non or little thrills and spills. The best bits are when one of the suspension lacking wheel barrows starts bouncing that much that you feel the drivers head might come off. Other than that - NOTHING. I cant accept that they have any type of following.

As for f2 numbers, im sorry but there has been many meetings where the F2s have been the best racing action by far due to low numbers of F1's. That is always the case at Sheffield. Yes numbers might be a touch lower than previous years but no-one is immune to the way things are at the moment. But rest assured we all get the cars out as much as we can. Probably more than we sensibly should.

Agreed that F1's are your main component, but im sorry i feel its a big mistake if you scrub F2's in favour of V8's or the Rebels.

I do hope you give this some further consideration as i feel you will alienate a lot of people. I think you would be suprised how many people go to BV and Sheffield for the combination of the 2 formula on offer, Not just for the 1's and not just for the 2's.

As for the issue of the changes i think the main problem is the time which it has come in. Its hard enough getting up at 5 in a morning coming home a 7 and then working on the car just to get it to the track and keep it maintained. Its increasingly difficult to add in a considerable amount of work that surely could be done during the close season.

I think people would do well to acknowledge that no stockcar racer in this country gets paid for this. Theres none of us are "professional". So Steve it comes as a slap in the face when it appears you are saying thanks for all your efforts lads over the last however many years but im going to put some comical formula on instead.

Obviously theres more to this than meets the eye, with Speedworth saying they no longer want F2's in 2010, so maybe the internal politics within F2 is threatening to rip the sport apart.
As an avid F1 fan for 25 years, I now enjoy watching the F2's and as been said the F2 racing can be better than the F1's, a view supported by many of my F1 friends, one of who now attends as many f2 meetings as F1's.
V8's mini's are good support for F1's and in my opinion Saloon Stox provide the magical formula promoters seek - proper stock car racing, not bangers, at a cost many can participate in.

HI!

I don't know the "politics" behind the latest fiasco, but in my opinion F2s put on a great show and provide more fun and incidents than their "big brothers" on many an occasion....and this is just after seeing them at Belle Vue!

The only thing they lack is the "Sound" and weight of the F1s, otherwise they provide entertainment a-plenty and it would be a shame if their formula is affected by whatever is going on behind the scenes.

GED

Together we have built a good support for F2's at both venues although, I believe the escalation in shale dates v the number of shale racers has led to an out of proportion and to be fair our car numbers have suffered - 60 will go to Coventry on a Friday and 22 for a WCQR - on that basis we have to be realistic and review the volume of dates for 2010 - As a big supporter historically of F2 we have for the last several years excluded other formulae to ensure a maximisation on shale racing - more shale dates have now come and our car numbers have suffered - hence a re-look. That said we hope to introduce a new shale venue in 2010 and F2's will be offered dates here.

What has not helped is escalating politics in the formula - as my programme notes have outlined - Big N also makes a comment earlier in the thread about the timing of additional plating - truth is there have been several near misses this year and once thathas been identified - you have to act, it wold from a HSE perspective be totally irresponsible even though it may be desireable - to delay this proposal until next year. Deane is not anti F2 whatsoever but has similar concerns to me - and to be fair the comments quoted in Stoxworld were made before the last BriSCA promoters meeting when a lot of things for the future were resolved, key being safety factors.
After a spate of issues both Deane and myself were very unhappy and we have both publicly stated - no hidden agenda - that if some of these [ safety issues being a major factor ] could not be resolved - there are other things, then, perhaps we would seek to join Spedeworth and run Superstox - that is because of the singular management style of that sport and better controls and generally, cheaper to compete in. But we have moved a long way at the last BriSCA meeting in certain areas which should benefit the sport - so please do not read negativity into the comments already stated by Deane.

Deane and I visited Dutch workshops in February and looked at a number of Dutch F2's and safety features.

With regards Startrax / F2 - They will remain an important part of our fixtures although there is now appears no need for us to run so many meetings which will allow us to perhaps improve variety although nothing is set in tablets of stone as yet.

We have also got to take away and learn the experiences from the last two tuesdays which in terms of audience attendance v what was on offer v pricing and other factors needs o be thoroughly evaluated

Regarding the upper weight issue, for the rest of this year there is a consession to the heavy cars that no penalty will be issued if within a reasonable margin, i.e if you add 10kg you can be 10kg over. Discussions on these matters are still taking place between drivers and promotors, safety must always come first

BIG N wrote:

steven wrote: Everyone connected with F2 is aware of current issues over rule changes which to be honest should have been brought in for the start of the season and not delayed until now - but they have been brought in to improve safety which is paramount. I read with incredulity suggestions of `ill thought out!' and then that some drivers may hang their helmets up until next year - suggesting some mischief somewhere so I thought I had better lay out where we stand on this. Steve, are you serious when you say you find it incredulus that drivers are saying these new rules are ill thought out and that some people are concidering parking the car up for the remainder of this season ? I went to the last F2 qualifier of the year at Skeggy shortly after these were announced and talking to the drivers there the overwhelming impression I got was one of anger and biterness at both the ruling and the timing of its implimentation. Firstly - apart from the conciderable work involved in stripping the cars and fitting the new plating in place take a moment to think about all the drivers who have had expensive paint jobs and sign writing done in that area on the cars, all of which will be ruined with only a few months of the season remaining. Whilst all this extra plate is being added in the name of safety there is no alteration to the upper weight limit of the cars, so if you want to add weight this way and remain legal where exactly do you lose the extra weight from - without compromising the construction of the car and in turn the safety of it ? Secondly - moving the wing to sit centrally on the car, if anything this could be detrimental to safety as you will now have it in a position where it can wrap over either side of the cab in a roll over as opposed to only one side although in truth I dont think an F2 wing is really that much of a problem to pull out of the way when its bent. Again this is incurring extra expense with drivers either having to buy a new wing or invest in some sort of mounting kit that moves the wing to a central position. A lot of drivers are asking why should they bother doing all this work for what remains of the season when they will only be stripping the car down again in a couple of months. What is more puzzling is why the F2 B.O.C. wish to have this implimented by the 1st of Sept when (to the best of my knowledge) there have been no accidents this season where either of these new rules would have made a difference to the outcome. There is absolutly no reason why this could not wait till the end of the current season - no wonder drivers are feeling pee'd off and feel like not racing.

Well said that man!

I have just had a lengthy conversation with a top F2 shale racer who attended as a family just to watch last night and thoroughly enjoyed it but had heard rumours we were dropping F2's - Let me set the record straight, untrue, we have applied to re-open Stoke and if we can conclude a mutually agreeable commercial arrangement then we will operate several dates in 2010 and we would hope to elaborate on this in the Autumn.

I have aired my general concerns regarding aspects of F2's rightly where they should be aired and am reasonably satsified at where we appear to be going, I am very happy with F2 drivers in general and attitude etc, and it is not a pay to race issue as one formula is quite happy to pay £30 to race although that has not persuaded us to run them this year - or be planned for 2010. We need to entertain a crowd to keep them coming back - 12-14 cars x £30 does not deliver that in a bigger picture. If our F2 numbers reduce because of over supply of F2 shale dates and we suffer then we have to look at what other products are on offer - The economy certainly does not help however Cov for example still gets big figures on a Friday where ours have reduced so we guess drivers are satisifed now and we can add one or two dates for MiniStox, 1300 saloons etc.
It is still very early in the planning process.

Being a member of the F2 BOC i don't fully agree with how it was handled, but it has happened so we have to get on with it. There will be some driver sthat won't race after September the first which is a crying shame but it is there hobby and they can choose to do what ever suits them best.

F2 numbers are down all round this year on both surfaces not just shale. Most Oval formula are suffering at the moment but it will bouce back in time.

The changes aren't that great just inconvenience to most, i have not raced yet this year and have a car nearly ready for Friday with plates down the under carriage which now aren't long enough, so do i strip the car down again or wait untill season finishes, this is the question on most people minds.

As for Stoke returning that would be a nice touch and i wish Steve and Startrax all the luck with trying to return it