I think Steve was right, Carl, judging by his comments concerning the low take up on discounted advance tickets etc.

Just 5% of the total gate is very, very low. Maybe, due to the current economic state, there might be more who will be encouraged to grab such offers, I know I did before I got a season ticket.

I think that part of the problem is the mind set of your average fan. We're so used to just turning up and paying on the gate that it becomes hard to break that 'turn up, watch, go home' kind of mentality.

I know from the joys of watching my beloved Bradford City, when I went when they were a mid table (then Division 3) outfit, the chairman greeted each one of us As the team progressed up through the leagues, we suddenly had to buy tickets for individual games and then commit to season tickets in order to be assured of seeing games. However, I could see the sense in buying one. I made almost every home game and paid full whack each time, now, with my season ticket I was still doing the same but saving 10% on the admission fee, which adds up over 20 odd games a season. It took a change in mindset to see the benefits in a season ticket.

I think that the season ticket idea will grow, it will just take time. Same for discounted, advanced tickets and other attractions such as 'meal-and-a-meeting' deals and other offers. These things sometimes need to grow in order to become established and embraced as a good idea by fans.

Carl, I thought at the time I bought the season ticket I might not make every Startrax F1 date, but at the price, even if I missed a couple, I still would be making a big saving than if I'd paid full whack at those I did attend. Interestingly, since I've had the ticket, I've felt more motivation to attend all the dates on the ticket than if I hadn't bought it. And I've got more descressionary income each month to spend on magazines, a programme etc, so others in the sport have benefitted from the 'rub off' a season ticket brings.

As part of the questionnaire and in order to judge peoples opinion, there is a quesion on what sort of season ticket people might be interested in. It should help Steve guage whether to offer a more 'bespoke' range of season tickets.

I voted yes, on behalf a very good friend, who started to get into the sport (through myself) but now finds himself in an unfortunate situation where he feels he cannot spare the cash. Now to what the extent the discount would have to be to remedy this I wouldn't know until the offer was on the table for a specified date!

As for the survey, I guess Wolfy that this was what you were refering to when I posed the question of MR in the Startrax market place last season end? I havn't added any suggestions because of the limited time I am allowing myself for stock cars online right now. As such, I could not think of one point that, either, you would not have considered, we had not talked about at some point in the past year or so, or had not already been mentioned! Certainly not lack of interest mate!

As for the season ticket, I was tempted at the time, but thought, wrongly as it turned out, that I would be slaving away in the extreme SE of Britain and would miss most of said meetings......Wrong! I missed out, probably like many are thinking right now!

Cheers Wildy

We will look at that Carl - we are doing a lot of planning for 2010 and becoming much more customer orientated and seeking feed back and methods of attracting, targetting and then how we retain a new audience and examining all aspects of the `experience' from car parking, public interface with the `few' people one may meet such as stewards, turnstile staff, programme seller etc during a night together with PA - information, event presentation - some things will be a little alien to regular race goers, much has to be balanced however to encouraging new support and retention of a percentage in the longer term.
Startrax will have a revamp in several areas for 2010, some things will be trialled and introdced `quietly' this year but not rushed - one thing is clear, there is a place in the entertainment market for oval racing, it's how we market it, how we present it, perceived value for money and overall the shw has to be balanced to deliver an experience for all who attend and not just concentrate on satisfying one faction.

We, as Chris wil testify, have been working upon this for 12 months and have not rushed it, we experimented with some things at Ipswich last year and learnt a lot although despite some critics, 87% of the overall response was positive/ extremely positive. We learnt that Ipswich definately needs more cars on track than most other venues - and last year with 23/25's on track delivered `horsepower' racing which was behind last Saturdays' decision of Spedeworth to deliver what the customer wants in terms of `big grids' of cars and a 2/3rds format which ordinarily would have been a traditional two heats/consi format. From reading reviews, this appears the right decision.

On a slightly different topic, having only switched on to Sky last year, I watched on/off 90 minutes of Bangers & Smash on Men & Motors filmed in 2002 and on a personal note whilst we all seek TV for our sport, if it isn't done right, it is highly unlikely to attract new people -in fact, quite the opposite. Hopefully the forthcoming BoB when broadcast dates are announced will offer the other end of the spectrum.

Everything we do in oval racing if we are to succeed in attracting and retaining a new audience has to tick the boxes for the majority.

Wildy

I'm shocked you haven't advocated concessionary beer prices

It's heartening to read Steve's comments and I know he and I have discussed several aspects of this in the past and I feel there is very much a meeting of minds on this topic and hence why I'm happy to use the knowledge of my day job to assist in any way I can.

Whilst I don't want to say too much, as I've an article written for an future issue of Stoxscene but I will say this...

The sport potentially faces it's biggest publicity, and in turn marketing during the winter of 09/10. Like any company which would emabrk on a national media campaign (which is really what the docu series will be), the sport needs to make sure that what it's offering will engage those who make the effort to attend a meeting, enough for them to return again and again. Therefore, pre-planning and getting it right first time is essential because the sport won't get a second bite of the cherry.

The problem is Tim that for most venues there are not enough F1's for F1 only events - we would not even consider dropping Bangers from our programmes as they offer a contrast to F1's and even to the untrained eye a major difference.

Ellite League Speedway offers `pure' speedway, 15 minutes worth - Tim, it isn't enough to fulfill a modern family audience - 20/20 cricket, Rugby League - `shows - music, gimmicks and presentation ' not dissimilar to what we did at Odsal in 1996 and 1997 combined with a massive and probably unsustainable ad spend.

And the big problem with the traditionalists is that (and no offence) they aint getting any younger or growing in numbers!

We need to attract new blood into the sport not only to replace those who have gone over the last two decades, but also to grow the sport. A sport that is willing to adapt and change will be the one that survives.

Tim's highlighted 20/20 Cricket and this is a perfect example. The ECB realised that the sport needed a makeover in order to attract a younger audience (funnily enough they too had an ageing fan base). The traditional image of the starched whites and fedora wearing club blazer player/fan watching a three day game was found to be turn off to attracting new fans.

They shortened the game, increased the scoring and dispensed with whites in favour of brightly coloured uniforms and catchy names like 'pheonix' and in doing so, have revolutionised the game without dispensing with the core priciples of the game itself.

The sport's core attributes are sound, it just needs some tweaking to make sure the rules are simple to understand and the various championships are likewise.

Hi Steve,
I wasn't suggesting F1's only, I know that would never work, what I meant was a mix of F1's with F2's, ministox, hotstox/V8. all BRISCA formula. Like Northampton on Sunday.
What was missing was some razzamtaz, like the fireworks when the winner takes the chequered flag like Hyde road used to, maybe some coloured / strobe lights at night meetings, MODERN music, maybe individual songs for individual drivers, exploding tickertape for the final winner.
I know a big screen costs a fortune but could all Brisca promotions share it and spread the cost in relation to number of meetings?

I sort of agree Tim but I would predict if you did a survey at NIR as the example quoted the demographics of the crowd would be hard core fans, friends and family and perhaps a few newcomers.
BV as a different example is very different and to grow an audience and retain new visitors you need to understand in more detail what the new visitors expect.
The formulation you suggest is too much of the same - I suggest, for a new audience.
We have in the past done cruder forms of market research, indeed at Odsal we did a very professional one and as the one who answers most enquiries from the general public, I don't want to depress you - they want Demolition Derbies! In May 1996 we debuted Bangers at Odsal after which we had hundreds of phone calls at subsequent Bank Holidays as to what was on - when we said it was F1/F2 they stock answer `When are Bangers back on.....' That is very much the same we have at Belle Vue.
To us stock cars are the dogs wotsits, very much the same as speedway is to their devout followers - a sport marketed better than we can dream of due to it's team status, SKY TV investment - and still crowds are very low indicating it more than us fails to capture the imagination of a significant number of new visitors.
We are a `minority' sport and the future lies in developing local, not National audiences as we all live much busier lifestyles and only a fraction of a percentile is ever likely now to become `addicted' and forsake most things to traverse the country every weekend.

A bit less racing and more `entertainment' is probably the answer, one of the circles we are trying to square in our evaluations whilst maintaining a happy balance - I cannot however see the day at BV other than titled events such as BDC when Bangers do not featue alongside stock cars to create `general' interest and ensure they receive roughly what they believe they are coming to see - cars crashing. In part we can `push' and 'change' the image of stock cars into something more distinctive and that fits with the purists view that these are the elite. Personally, I worry about that distinction in case nobody comes if they thought it was more serious racing....There are perfectly good circuit classes - no one watches them!

Sheffield is a good example - Vince quite literally spent an unsustainable amount of money on Bank Holidays focusing on money off vouchers and promoting gimmicks - not F1's - We have since 2003 run the very events you ask for, right combos, not one of them including Semi Finals or British Drivers Championship gets anywhere near Battle of Britain - hence four major Banger events scheduled at Owlerton in 2010 - They are what the South Yorkshire audience seem to want to see - and they really only want to pay a maximum tenner to see it.

Some very good points Steve, strange isn't it, when we seem to think F1's originate and have their biggest base in your catchment area ( the north ), and with what you say I can now see why the effort to move the sport toward the south east using the guest tracks.
Maybe that's the answer, Have F1's as a travelling "circus" racing at more one off tracks, leaving promoters like yourself to concentrate on what your local audience want.
Whatever, I just want to say how refreshing it is to be able to have a dialogue with someone on the "other side" of the fence so to speak, because, although I might not hear the answers I would like, the reasoning is sound. Thanks.

Tim

What started off as a simple question aimed at judging a small percentage of peoples opinions has turned into a very interesting and far wider debate, and thats the way that good forum topics should develop.

Let me give you a blunt answer to your opening question Steve - if someone is struggling to make ends meet on unemployment benifits for whatever reason, then I seriously doubt that the chance of a small discount on admission would be the difference between staying at home or attending a meeting.

Look at it this way, your money is extreamly short, you have £12 to spend but there are several options on which to spend it, Startrax offer you a 10% discount for being in this situation which means it's £9.80 to get in - thats still £9.80 that would be better spent on a multitude of other options before concidering going racing.
Add into the equation from your point of view the complexitys of operating and policing the system and I think you really are looking at a non starter.

A lot has been said about attracting new faces to the racing and, more importantly, what can be offered to entice them to return a second time - perhaps it would be better if, rather than looking for offers and discounts to bring people back a second time, you concentrated on offering a package that made them want to return at the price they paid the first time, that would be a far greater result.

Something touched on in this topic is season tickets and the apparent resistance of people to buy them, well I can only speak from a personal point of view but, even knowing that a season ticket represents good value, I have always resisted buying one simply because I cannot be certain over the course of a season which meetings I can or cannot attend.
Taking this on board could I make a suggestion that might just sell a few more tickets along the way.
Instead of a season ticket for a complete given season how about an open ticket for a set number of meetings that is not date restricted.
I.E. a ticket with (and this is purely an example) 20 Startrax meetings on it for the price of 15 or 16, a simple booklet or ticket with boxes to take a date stamp and you can use it as often or as little as you like until it is used up, you could of course put restrictions on it, for example - not the F1 British or Semi Finals etc etc but on the other hand it could be used for any of your domestic meetings including non Brisca meetings - Hotstox, bangers etc etc if people wished to do so.
Simply re-new it when it runs out.

Just a thought from me Steve